wrote a Bandom Big Bang project
that, among other things, involved Gabe Saporta as a Catholic priest. I'm having trouble verbalizing exactly why this is so gross, but, okay, here is an attempt to do so. When I engaged promisethstars in discussion
and tried to explain why this was bothering me, zie raised the point that the story is an AU, and argued that from zir perspective, there was no difference between making Gabe Saporta a Catholic priest for zir AU and making Patrick Stump a prostitute for another AU. The thing is, as I said to zir, there is
a difference between between changing Patrick Stump's job for an AU and changing Gabe Saporta's religion for an AU, and that difference is that there have been and continue to be a lot of people who genuinely want to see Judaism and/or the Jewish people erased from the face of the earth. And, moreover, there are people who haven't just wanted to see it happen, but have made genuine attempts and had varying degrees of success in trying to make
I also took issue with this part of one of promisethstars
's replies to me during our discussion of the subject:
May I ask, are you yourself Jewish? I wonder if that isn't perhaps that underlying cause of your anger towards me. If you aren't, is there some other personal reason that you are upset?
This is...okay, the best I am coming up with is linking to a few points on Derailing For Dummies
, namely (among others) You're Just Oversensitive
and You're taking Things Too Personally
. Fortunately, custardpringle
made a post
about this, addressing (much more eloquently than I could, so I encourage you all to go read her thoughts on the matter) the fact that what promisethstars
appears to be saying with this is that if you are Jewish, you're just mad because you're taking it too personally, and your hurt is invalid.
As of right now, promisethstars
has added the following note to her fic:
NOTE: I have changed Gabe's religion for the purposes of this story. It has been brought to my attention that this is upsetting to some people. I meant no offense or harm, and feel it is better to place a warning here to provide the information up front so that whosoever wants to read this story goes into it understanding the situation.
Which, in all honesty, I feel is kind of...hm. The thing is, I feel like it's been established, throughout the various *Fails of the past year and a half, that intention means very little, if anything. I don't think promisethstars
sat down and said "I think, for my Bandom Big Bang, I want to write something that contributes to a problematic historical tradition of erasing Jewish identity!" and then cackled and did some villainous mustache-twirling. As has been said over and over again, by people far more eloquent than I, intention doesn't matter
. That Fan A didn't intend to be hurtful to Fan B doesn't negate the fact that Fan B is
hurt and Fan A is
the cause of it.
Full warning: At the moment I have very spotty Internet access, since I haven't got it set up in my new apartment yet and work is varying degrees of insane, but please do feel free to weigh in and/or link as desired, and I'll try to keep up when I've got time and Internet access.EDIT: promisethstars
has made her Bandom Big Bang story private or deleted it, and PM'ed me to apologize. I have issues with the deletion -- amazonziti
laid it out well here
-- but I appreciate the apology a lot. Thank you to everyone for the supportive comments throughout the course of this, as well.EDIT 2:
Wow, this post kind of exploded! I apologize for not engaging or following comments thoroughly, but I'm out of town and my access is limited to occasional playing around with redbrickrose
's iPad, on the rare occasions there's Internet access. I'm not ignoring comments or discussion, but my ability to participate is extremely limited.EDIT 3:
I've seen some classic examples of tone arguments
here in the comments. I'm not going to turn off or freeze commenting, including anonymous commenting, because I think there are a lot of reasons people might not be comfortable signing their names to comments. But I'm not going to engage with any more such attempts to derail in this way. If other people want to, they're bigger people than I am.EDIT 4:
Something I think I should clarify -- this was not a conversion story. I have absolutely no problem with conversion. As it says right in my profile, I'm a convert myself -- I was raised Protestant and am now Jewish. There are a lot of valid reasons to convert, and I'm personally acquainted with many of them.That's not what this story was.
Here, of course, is where it becomes a problem that it's been taken down, because of course you all just have to take my word for it, unless someone has screencaps. This wasn't Gabe Saporta converts to Catholicism -- it was just a complete erasure of his Jewish identity. It was, for want of a better word, a whitewashing.
(And, okay, granted, if you're trying to find someone in bandom who's going to become a priest and talk people off in a confessional, I could see how Gabe Saporta would be a pretty logical choice...except for that whole Jewish thing. The thing is that for me, and a lot of other people, that's a pretty big "except".)
I've also seen several attempts to draw the never-ending debate about whether or not RPF is okay into the comments. Fortunately, this seems to be dying down, but if it continues, I will probably start freezing comments. Anonymous comments are screened from this point on; if you're coming over from LJ and don't have a DW account, either use OpenID or sign them with your LJ handle and I'll unscreen them.