sohotrightnow: the top of a swimming young woman's torso. ([buffy] society's only protection)
Jules ([personal profile] sohotrightnow) wrote2009-09-03 02:09 pm

Your music is bad and you should feel bad!

Oh lordy-loo, so I am probably going to regret making this public, but enough people were encouraging of it that, okay, why the hell not.

Here is the thing: I am fully okay with exposing what bullshit the SurveyFail dudes were pulling. Sai and Ogi were, imo, condescending jerks who were using bad science and terrible data-gathering methods to try and prove that their sexist "findings" were right and to generally treat women's sexuality like it is something shocking and alien. This is really offensive to me.

But I am really, really not okay with some of the fic and art being posted. When I and a few others mentioned this in the comments of this post (WARNING: the art is extremely NSFW, and I've found out that I'm not the only one who first looked at that picture and saw a rape scene, even if it wasn't intended that way) expressed some of our issues with the idea of fandom's using sexual content as a way to humiliate the SurveyFail dudes, [personal profile] elf responded (link) that fandom was using "explicit sexual situations, and tentacle porn, and humiliation, as tools of mockery" -- a mindset which, as [personal profile] lindra pointed out here, stems from exactly the same place as sexual assault and rape, both of which are also about using "sexual situations...and humiliation as tools" to establish or affirm power.

I have no problem with RPF, fic or art. I have a problem with the fact that people are creating these things with the intention of maliciously shoving them in the subjects' faces, specifically for the purpose of humiliating them. There's been a lot of really intelligent discussion in this mess, and that we feel the need to undercut it with crap like this really disturbs me.

TL;DR I AM HUMORLESS.

...on the bright side, I got a much-needed haircut and now I look super-cute? :D?

ETA: Just as a heads-up, I'm going to be away from home for the holiday weekend, doing family stuff; I've got some limited wifi but will probably be keeping busy. I'm not, for the most part, ignoring anyone or refusing to engage, so my apologies if that's what it looks like, I'm just not going to have much computer time until Tuesday.
naraht: (art-Tentacles)

Here via Zvi

[personal profile] naraht 2009-09-03 06:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I agree. Thanks for saying it.

Re: Here via Zvi

[personal profile] naraht - 2009-09-03 18:58 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here via Zvi

[personal profile] fridgepunk - 2009-09-03 22:39 (UTC) - Expand

Thoughts, literally on yaoi

[personal profile] fridgepunk - 2009-09-04 01:23 (UTC) - Expand
marginalia: (Default)

[personal profile] marginalia 2009-09-03 06:47 pm (UTC)(link)
ew. i had skimmed past a post promoting that this morning, but was pretty squicked at the idea of googlebombing them with slash. i just hadn't thought much about any of this fail, really, other than AVOID.

I have no problem with RPF, fic or art. I have a problem with the fact that people are creating these things with the intention of maliciously shoving them in the subjects' faces, specifically for the purpose of humiliating them. There's been a lot of really intelligent discussion in this mess, and that we feel the need to undercut it with crap like this really disturbs me.

I CANNOT AGREE ENOUGH. for me, rpf is totally from a place of joy & love for people (or more accurately personas). and how is this supposed to create any respect for our argument? if anything it supports a vindictive/irrational stereotype. THANKS.

(no subject)

[personal profile] marginalia - 2009-09-03 19:13 (UTC) - Expand
cofax7: climbing on an abbey wall  (Default)

[personal profile] cofax7 2009-09-03 06:49 pm (UTC)(link)
+1

(no subject)

[personal profile] cofax7 - 2009-09-03 20:37 (UTC) - Expand
bossymarmalade: kirk and uhura on the bridge (for one hundred quatloos)

[personal profile] bossymarmalade 2009-09-03 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, and thank you for posting. I was already feeling a little uncomfortable about it and couldn't quite parse why; this has cleared things up for me. Like a balloon! And something bad happens!
mecurtin: uppity pirate woman, with gun (uppity)

YES!

[personal profile] mecurtin 2009-09-03 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
If you've ever read comments on YouTube (NSFbrain, generally) you know how depressingly common the "s/he should be raped!" response is. If I ever found it funny or apropos, I don't anymore. Ever. For anyone.

Thank you for saying this.
snacky: (Default)

[personal profile] snacky 2009-09-03 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via cofax7, and yes, thank you. I saw that earlier and was really uncomfortable with it.

Re: Here via Zvi

[personal profile] keeva - 2009-09-04 04:31 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2009-09-03 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
SO MUCH AGREEING. THAT ART WAS NOT OKAY.
medie: A minion in a red wig with a red and white checkered scarf (angel - faith - wash away my sin)

[personal profile] medie 2009-09-03 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, apparently I am a humorless old woman too, because yesterday? Soooo proud of fandom. Today, not so much at all.

(no subject)

[personal profile] medie - 2009-09-03 19:22 (UTC) - Expand
jonquil: (Default)

[personal profile] jonquil 2009-09-03 07:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Via [personal profile] cofax7 Well said. Thank you.
haunted: Apollo, by Dustin Nguyen (Default)

[personal profile] haunted 2009-09-03 07:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for this. You've articulated what I was thinking but couldn't quite process. I'm not going back over to that post because I'm lol sensitive, but it's nice to see that a few people think this isn't okay.
jadey: greyscale a woman's face (ani difranco) eyes upward  (Default)

[personal profile] jadey 2009-09-03 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
also here via Zvi, and I agree. I have avoided these posts every time someone has linked them because I'm not personally down with RPS in the first place, and in-your-face revenge!RPS was even less to my liking. That the artwork (which I steadfastly avoided viewing as well) could be interpreted as a rape scene is... disturbing yet again to a new level.

I'm really glad you said something. In retrospect, given how often I was commenting on this whole thing, I feel like a chickenshit for not speaking up on this sooner. Will remember this for next time (and there will be a next time, I'm sure).
jadey: greyscale a woman's face (ani difranco) eyes upward  (Default)

[personal profile] jadey 2009-09-03 07:47 pm (UTC)(link)
(sudden attack of disclosure: I'm not *politically* against RPS; I just don't like it myself, with one very weird exception)
acari: Garfield (rock on)

[personal profile] acari 2009-09-03 08:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I just took a look at the image and I have to agree with you. I had a visceral oh hell no response to it. I think it was the stockings and lacy underwear that did it for me. Humiliation through feminization. Oh hell no.



jaciem: Feminism Despite reports to the contrary, it seems that women are, indeed, people. (Default)

[personal profile] jaciem 2009-09-04 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
This.
darlas_mom: (hufflepuff-wanttolive)

[personal profile] darlas_mom 2009-09-03 08:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<user="zvi">') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

Here via <user="zvi">, and dude, so much agreeing here. I felt uncomfortable as soon as the first RPS ficlet of the two popped up, and I couldn't figure out why. You've articulated it beautifully. Thank you.
heathershaped: (BSG: Sharon)

[personal profile] heathershaped 2009-09-03 08:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via zvi, and thanks.

I thought the macro and GIF spamming was fun and no less than those guys deserved.

I think that thing that you just linked to is fandom stepping way over a line that is apparently thinner and more faint than I would have assumed.
riseupwithfists: art by rick veitch (this tornado loves you)

[personal profile] riseupwithfists 2009-09-03 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
You're not being humorless at all; the art I came across made me really mortified. Fandom being silly and macro-spamming: fine. But some of it is crossing a malicious line.
trouble: Sketch of Hermoine from Harry Potter with "Bookworms will rule the world (after we finish the background reading)" on it (Default)

[personal profile] trouble 2009-09-03 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh thank you. I've been saying similar things to people privately, but haven't been up to dealing with any fallout.
thedivinegoat: (Leverage - Sophie doesn't credit icons)

[personal profile] thedivinegoat 2009-09-03 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Why aren't you on skype so I can tell you how awesome you are?
gloss: woman in nightgown laughing (fear)

[personal profile] gloss 2009-09-03 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
I've been going round and round in my head since you posted this under lock, because I agree with you but then I kept secondguessing myself and couldn't figure out how I felt about this. Like, there's sometimes power in using the majority's pejoratives against them (but that power is usually shortlived and emotionally satisfying, rather than politically/intellectually productive).

But using sex to humiliate someone just doesn't sit right with me. Oh, they deserve mockery, sure, but -- argh. I like to pretend act on the assumption that my version of fandom is sex positive. Mocking and humiliating our nemeses with sex is just...well. It reaffirms sex as negative, redeploys sex as a tool of violence and discipline.

And I guess I just can't support that.
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2009-09-03 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
See, I've been hesitant to speak up, because I was all about the use of porn as a protest tool against LJ back during Strikethrough, and may in fact have posted some to lj_news's profile page myself.

And yet the porn coming out of this round of fail has been making me really, really uncomfortable, and I can't really articulate why. Except maybe that this stuff is so much more *personal*; there's a long step between "lj and fandom do some dominance play" and "clearly he secretly wants to be raped by tentacles!"
orca_girl: (Default)

[personal profile] orca_girl 2009-09-03 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<dw-user=cofax>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

Here via <dw-user=cofax>.

YES. Thank you for articulating this so well, especially the idea of using enforced inclusion in sexual material (let alone feminization) for the purposes of humiliation. Frat-boy humor: still not funny.

Hi People

(Anonymous) 2009-10-10 04:05 am (UTC)(link)
Hi People
How are you doing?
mab_browne: Alpine scene and flowers from a painting by Rebecca Osbourne (Default)

[personal profile] mab_browne 2009-09-03 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for articulating an issue that also bothered me. I know that this is fandom ::shrugs:: but I felt that at best that some responses undermined the arguments against Ogas, regardless of how justified the anger was.
kuwdora: (Default)

[personal profile] kuwdora 2009-09-03 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via [personal profile] cofax7.

Fandom has been made of epic win. Until that. I am so disgusted now. Gah.
elf: Another link in the chain (Linkspam)

[personal profile] elf 2009-09-03 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
This post has been included in a linkspam roundup.
seperis: (Default)

[personal profile] seperis 2009-09-04 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, this. I'm seriously not okay with this, and I'm less okay the more I think about it. You articulated it very well.
fridgepunk: I'm not gonna lie, it's an earth pony version of Spider Jerusalem from Transmetropolitan, and he's shrugging. (Default)

[personal profile] fridgepunk 2009-09-04 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
Okay serious cat is serious posting now

This was originally a comment that got out of hand in reply to this, I accept your position but I see the RPS as performing a neccesary duty for some of us, and I have deleted what I had written of the second RPS I was working on if people are finding it problematic.

I honestly half expected the first RPS I wrote to get loads of "dude you are lowering the fucking tone jagoff" in the first place.

(no subject)

[personal profile] keeva - 2009-09-04 04:34 (UTC) - Expand

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